It’s a Singapore today top story with Daniel Martin.

Daniel Martin: This is Singapore Today. Thank you for joining me in this top story. Let’s talk about what you’ve been reading on CNA.asia, and that is a report talking of our upcoming bottled and can drink recycling program. That is the Beverage Container Return Scheme. We talked about it a little while ago on Singapore Today, but in this newest report on CNA.asia, it does state that the prices for bottled and canned drinks could rise by 25 to 60 cents. This new programme, by the way, begins in April. Several importers and small retailers were asked by our reporters, and they gave that price range. Why? Well, they say they will be struggling with multiple fees.

From that report, here is Devang Bafna, who is director of Tian Ma Group Holdings, a discount retailer in Singapore,

Devang Bafna: I’ll have no choice but to impose that cost onto the consumers, and it’s just going to increase the price overall in the market. For example, a can of 100 plus. If it goes from 70 cents to 85 cents, instead of buying three or four, they might only buy one or two. So, it will change the whole aspect and the whole game of, you know, drinks and beverages being sold in the market, we are forced, or we have no cards to play. We have to take whatever cost is given to us and impose them on the consumer. So, as I said, it’s a domino effect. If one does it, the other has to do it, and it falls all on the consumer.

Daniel Martin: Also from that report, Corrine Chia, co-founder of the Drinking Partners, they’re a small craft beer importer, and because they’re bringing in new flavours every month, each batch will need a new registration as part of the Beverage Container Return Scheme.

Corrine Chia: We need to go through this whole process of product registration, waiting for 12 to 16 weeks before we can sell it. You know, having to manually sticker everything all over again for every single new label that we bring in. I think trying to get information has been a struggle. We don’t know what’s happening. There’s a lot of fear that we’re undergoing in this stress. But what we know for sure is that there’s going to be higher costs coming in, but we don’t know how much, how big is that cost going to be? How much of it is going to really impact our business? Is it going to put us out of business? That is scary.

Daniel Martin: The BCRs, in case you’re wondering, a little bit more a reminder about the Beverage Container Return Scheme that aims to cut waste and bump up recycling rates by introducing a refundable deposit for drink containers. This is not new, so I’m a bit concerned about what I’m hearing in that report, CNA reporter Claudia Lim filed that on CNA.asia, aired last Friday, because again, this is not new.

When I was in university, I remember there were drink recycling containers around the country, and people were able to do this. We’re also not the first country to impose this. Many countries have had such a drink return scheme, and it would be something to learn from them, and how they make sure that they keep their costs manageable and don’t pass it on to the consumer. Because it’s not new. But what is new is this sense or this feeling amongst the general populace, which is, how come, every time we seem to do something green, which, you know, for the planet. How come it seems to make things a bit more expensive for you and I, the average person.

Let’s talk about that perspective. Remi Cesaro is joining me. He is Founder and Executive Director of Zero Waste City. It’s a consulting business specialising in waste reduction for commercial and industrial facilities. Remi, welcome to the show. Hi!

Remi Cesaro: Hi, Daniel, good evening. And good evening, everyone.

Daniel Martin: Good evening. Let’s talk about that point that I made, which is this beverage recycle return scheme. This is not a new. This is not like rethinking the wheel here. Many countries have done this and have implemented ways for drink manufacturers to do this without passing on costs, I’m sure, right?

Remi Cesaro: That’s right. So actually, we are kind of lucky in that sense that we have over three decades of return of experience from countries we have implemented similar, what we call deposit return scheme around the world. One of the oldest ones being from Norway, and it has been very common in many countries for many years already, even for things that are relatively close to us, like Australia or even in like Asia.

Daniel Martin: Then why do these manufacturers interviewed in that report seem so caught off guard and seem unable to find the balance like this is going to end their business somehow? One of them said, like, you know, this seems like, like it could be really bad for business that people will not buy drinks. Why is it that manufacturers don’t have the ability, again, to latch on to global experience and apply that?

Remi Cesaro: Yes, I mean, the concern is absolutely legitimate. I mean. There is no question about the fact that here we are talking about a transfer of responsibility from the consumer to the producers, and with those responsibility come effectively cost in this case. So, it’s not effectively surprising and absolutely legitimate for companies to be worried about it. Now there are several aspects to it.

The first one is thanks to the experience we have in other countries, and thanks to very detailed research from a company, an organisation called Reloop and Container Recycling Institute, we know that there is no evidence that deposit return scheme tends to increase or decrease the volume of beverage container sales.[2]

In fact, what we tend to see is the fluctuation. We will see in the past and in the future, before and after the deposit return scheme, is not directly related to the framework itself. So, in the months to come and in the years to come, the experience we have from other countries does not suggest that sales will go down or sales will go up. So that’s actually one thing we can maybe reassure companies and small business owner that this will not have an impact on that front. Where it will have an impact…

Daniel Martin: Does…Sorry, go on…

Remi Cesaro: So, the part where it’s a bit more of a question mark is the financial cost that may be borne by companies. And that one is also kind of interesting thing from previous experience, is the cost. I mean, the cost of the deposit return scheme is never bore by a single actor. What happened here is we have a multiple list of stakeholders – from the manufacturer, the importer, the distributor, the retailer, the brand owner. And the experience has been that the cost of the schemes tends to be diluted throughout those different stakeholders. So, it’s not like a single actor, the consumer, or let’s say the retailer will bear, by itself, the whole cost of the scheme. So that probably may be good news in that sense.

Nevertheless, there will still be cost involved, and that will typically apply and will be particularly felt by smaller businesses. For larger companies, they will be able to effectively have an economy of scale when it comes down to the extra cost of compliance with the scheme. But those costs of compliance will obviously be more felt by the smaller businesses that have to spend more time and effort, and they don’t have a team dedicated to compliance. That’s typically where things are a bit more worrying for them.

Daniel Martin: Okay, let’s talk about that idea of the cost. I do want to pick up on that, but also, if I want to talk timeline, in case many of you are wondering, like, oh, maybe they don’t have enough time to respond to this scheme. Let’s bear in mind that the original launch plan for this was supposed to be 2024/ 2025 and then it was pushed to April 1, 2026 because of feedback from manufacturers and importers that they needed more time for implementation and to clear existing stock. So, the time was pushed by a whole year to create time.

Remi, let’s talk about the cost aspect. I understand that’s what the report shows. I understand that’s what the global experience shows. But still, for us, the average consumer, why does it feel every time we need to do something green and for the planet, somehow it results in me having to pay more. That makes me not want to do something nice for the planet. Do you know what I mean? Like, it creates this idea of like, you’d say it’s green, great. I’m on board. I’ll be green with you. But why you pass it? Why does it make it more expensive for me in my pocket when you want to do something good?

Remi Cesaro: Okay, so the challenge here is basically, okay, we have to look at the big picture and effectively what’s happening here is a balancing act between costs and benefits. Now, yes, the report that was submitted, the article was submitted by the by CNA recently, which is actually a very good article, by the way, does focus effectively on the cost aspect, but there are several indirect costs that will benefit the whole community and the whole country overall.

Typically, one of the immediate benefits that we can expect from this particular scheme will be less littering. Less littering has several indirect impacts afterwards, which are lesser cost for cleaning, lesser risks of breeding ground for mosquitoes that can potentially lead to further healthcare cost and also a real benefit that everybody will be able to gain from it. Of course, if we focus exclusively on the cost of operating the scheme, it can feel like this.

Now, the other thing I want to mention is that’s very important here. It’s not just about recycling here, it’s about a transfer of responsibility. Right now, we as a consumer, we are the one to pay for the cost of waste disposal, but that responsibility shift thanks to the BCRS.

So, effectively, the responsibility of taking care of the packaging from post-consumer waste fall onto the producer, and that’s a very, very significant change in the way we tend to operate and think about waste management.

So now, in terms of we want to feel good, but we don’t want to pay extra. Here, we kind of need to go to a different conversation. And the question can be about the application and use of beverages in Singapore.

Daniel Martin: How so?

Remi Cesaro: So, in Singapore, we have to look at what is the actual usage of beverage containers. And for instance, in Singapore, approximately half of beverage containers are just for bottled water.

In Singapore, we are lucky, and I guess, proud enough to have a very good and reliable and safe drinking water system, and we could actually ask the question, what make us healthier and cost less money when we want to compare the usage of bottled water versus water from the tap.[3]

Daniel Martin: Wait, are you saying that what accounts for about half of bottled water in Singapore? About half of bottled beverage in Singapore has to do with bottled water?

Remi Cesaro: Yes.

Daniel Martin: I am shocked every time I see a delivery person delivering bottles of water to my building from the RedMart or the Amazon market. I’m always curious as to why on earth people are buying bottled water. I got to tell you, I personally don’t know people who buy bottled water, except expats or foreigners living in Singapore. That’s my personal opinion, because of maybe expectations that they have about living in Asia. I don’t know locals who buy bottled water.

Remi Cesaro: Well, I mean, this is, I mean, there’s plenty of good reason to justify. I mean, that may justify why people will buy bottled water, but yes, it’s still very much like a dataset we have available that suggests that, yes, half of water bottle in Singapore, plastic water bottles are actually for water application like carbonated water or still water.

Daniel Martin: Like I said, I don’t know anyone who buys bottled water. If you buy bottled water to my listeners and you’re local, can you please WhatsApp and tell me. I’d love to know why you’re buying bottled water. We’ve got it from the tap. We’ve got a fantastic filtration system. I drink from the tap still, and many of you can just boil water or have water filtration systems in your home. So that is shocking. I’ve only got a few minutes left, Remi, so I just want to fast forward a little bit and say, isn’t the real green goal and solution…the real thing that would actually help the planet is not about recycling the bottled beverages. The real impact would be not to buy the bottled beverage in the first place.

Remi Cesaro: Well, I mean, on this one, NEA [acronym of National Environment Agency] has been repeating it for years and years, reduce first and then reuse and recycle.

Daniel Martin: That’s the best, ultimately. I mean, do we know? What’s the quantum of bottle and canned beverages sold in Singapore? How much tonnage does that add to waste in Singapore? Do we have any figures on that? I’m curious.

Remi Cesaro: So that was actually a number I was able to calculate a few months ago to try to estimate what was the actual impact. But yes, we do have actually some numbers. Wait, give me a few…

Daniel Martin: Yes, of course,

Remi Cesaro: I might be able to bring it back to you. So, in terms of plastic bottles, is approximately like 500 million…

Daniel Martin: Wow.

Remi Cesaro: 500 million bottles that are consumed per year, approximately in Singapore.

Daniel Martin: Wow. That is tremendous. 500 million. That is worrying.

Remi Cesaro: So, it’s approximately like a 100 bottle per year per person. Approximately. So, it’s like…two bottles per week per person

Daniel Martin: So, if prices go up 20 to 60 cents, as this report suggests, could it help with the reduce aspect of this? Do you think it could motivate many of us to remember that, hey, for Christmas, I got a metal water bottle, or I got a reusable cup. I’m going to start using it on a regular basis, because let’s remember, nobody is forcing you to buy this beverage, by the way, everybody. Nobody is forcing you. It is not an urgent need for you to buy this plastic or canned beverage.

Do you think a price increase of this quantum, Remi, would motivate people to remember that they’ve got the reusable water bottle or cup in their fridge or in their cupboard, and it’s time to whip it out and to start being a regular daily user of it, and to stop relying on purchasing bottled drinks?

Remi Cesaro: Okay, now, first, maybe I’d like to just clarify something so as much as the increase of cost per beverage container will happen, in majority, it will not be 20 cents or 60 cents per bottle. In most of cases, it will be more around the tune of 5 cents per bottle on average, plus a deposit fee.

The increase of 20 to 60 cents, this one will technically happen in some very targeted cases of small volume type of product. This is typically where the type of fees…of increase may actually be observed, but for the vast majority of goods…so, the increase, if ever it’s being observed by consumer, will be more of the kind of 3 to 5 cents per bottle, which is the effective cost of the producer fee for operating the scheme. One thing just to maybe reassure people on this one. 

Second thing is, and I’ve kind of mentioned it already before, experience shows that as much as we have a deposit return scheme, the volume of sales will not drastically, dramatically increase or decrease as a result. That is again, based on experience from other countries. But finally, yes, if, in some cases, the price of a product increase significantly as a result, we can obviously hope that that will trigger changes of behaviour among consumers that will, of course, have a much greater impact environmental wise.

Daniel Martin: Yeah…Hey, Remi, I’m curious. Like, one thing I would love to know is like, do we have any breakdown as to who’s getting bottled water in Singapore? Because again…

Remi Cesaro: No, I don’t have this type of information.

Daniel Martin: I am shocked that we have as much as half of all bottled and canned beverages in Singapore having to be bought water, just plain old water.

Remi Cesaro: You know, the easy way to do it. Next time you go to supermarket, just look at how many aisles and rows of beverage containers you have, and you will see how many rows are dedicated just to water compared to other products.

Daniel Martin: Who’s buying that?!

Remi Cesaro: I actually give you a bit of a clue to it.

Daniel Martin: Sorry, Remi, because I’ve never actually gone down that aisle because I don’t need to buy bottled water. So, I’m not familiar with this aisle you speak of. This magical, mythical aisle of bottled water because I’m just being sarcastic for sarcasm’s sake, because I am shocked. I truly am. This is fascinating. Remi, thank you so much for joining us and for bringing us those factoids as well.

Remi Cesaro is Founder and Executive Director of Zero Waste City. It’s a consulting business specialising in waste reduction for commercial industrial facilities.